Dragon Ball Z
Dragonball...Racist?
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From: KingofNewbies | Posted: 7/26/2001 11:49:19 AM | Mark for Moderation
Let's get one thing straight. It's just a cartoon. Akira Toriyama is not racist. All the characters are meant to look goofy. If you've seen DB, many of the characters look strange.
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Hard work never killed anybody but why take any chances
From: Paikuhan | Posted: 7/26/2001 12:05:06 PM | Mark for Moderation
"The black people in DB were drawn as stereotypes, true. But that has nothing to do with racism. Since they know so little of black people, that's the only way they know to draw them."

The only way they know how to draw them? Very wrong. If they know so little of black people, how to they know to draw them like that? No black people have lips like that. So tell me, if you saw a black person, why you would decide to draw his lips completely different from how they were. Racism/bias. There aren't many black people in Japan, but the Japanese are not completely ignorant of black people. As a matter of fact, most of the manga that does have black people, don't draw them like that. Some one mentioned the anime called "Burn up". Robotech/Macross, Guy:awakening of the Devil, Fairplace, Tough, and Lokudenasu Blues, hardely ever have black people, but when they are shown they are not drawn like inhuman idiots, they are drawn fine. They look inhuman in DBZ, and in reality the difference is not that drastic. Look at the difference, between say Sharpner and Yamcha. One is White and is Japanese. They don't look too different. Now let's take Yamcha and the black baseball player. He doesn't look human next to Yamcha. Why is that so many other manga artistic can make black people look fine while toriyama makes them look inhuman and retarded? Clearly they have seen black people, so that's not an excuse. It racism/bias. No way around it.
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Nakka nakka yaru jinai ka.....THUNDER CLAW!!!!
From: Mustachioed Plumber | Posted: 7/26/2001 12:07:50 PM | Mark for Moderation
Most Americans would think of Dragon Ball being racist because in America, there are all kinds of people. And it's very hard for some people to think of a place where over 95% of the population is one race. But it's like that in Japan along with most country's in the world. When I took a vacation in Japan, a group of Japanese people I was with saw a black person from a distance. They thought it was just a very tanned Japanese person. They weren't stupid or ignorant, they just grew up in community where you only came in contact or communicated with one race of people. So it's not very fair to call AT or DB racist.
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"It's a me, Mario!"
From: android 35 | Posted: 7/26/2001 12:14:05 PM | Mark for Moderation
AT doesn't draw many dogs either. Does he hate dogs?
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FlAME ME FOR MY NEWBIE POSTS! - XxSSJ GohanxX
From: xXvegetto2Xx | Posted: 7/26/2001 12:16:44 PM | Mark for Moderation
Come to think of it, I don't remember me in the manga. He hates me!!
*Runs away crying*
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From: GigaMagusZ | Posted: 7/26/2001 12:18:57 PM | Mark for Moderation
Strange, I remember Veggeto in the Manga...
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"I've got two words for you: Im possible!" - Mario Mario, Super Mario Bros.
From: xXvegetto2Xx | Posted: 7/26/2001 12:19:52 PM | Mark for Moderation
Yes, but I'm Vegetto2.
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"Classic music is like a little orgasm in your ear."
-Jar Jar Binks (GameFAQ's board member)
From: PrettyBoy | Posted: 7/26/2001 12:25:29 PM | Mark for Moderation
Oh no, you ain't talking trash about Simpsons and getting away with it.
Simpsons doesn't put jokes about people of different races, religions, sexual preferences to be funny (well, maybe a little), but it is their cheap type of satire. They use obvious offensive jokes to show how stupid their characters really are. Example, when Krusty the Klown was doing his impersonation of an asian person (no ticky, no shirty, me lika fried rice, you get the drift), the entire audience was apalled. Simpsons makes jokes about (I am describing them as non-offensive as I can think of right now) sons of the south (Cletus), non-heterosexuals (we all remember that episode), asians (stated above), latinos (Bumblebee man), and anything that they can think of. They put those jokes to prove that the majority of the American population knows those jokes are bad, but they laugh anyway. They're not trying to be political activists, or burning crosses in people's lawns, they're conducting an experiment. At least that's my opinion.
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With IPM gone, I must take over as king of off-topic and all around wild and crazy guy!
From: android 35 | Posted: 7/26/2001 12:27:48 PM | Mark for Moderation
I was mainly under the impression that Matt Groening wanted to make people laugh and make money on the side. But that's just me.
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FlAME ME FOR MY NEWBIE POSTS! - XxSSJ GohanxX
From: Kuzuryu | Posted: 7/26/2001 1:59:25 PM | Mark for Moderation
Paikuhan, you do have a good point. I think it's interesting that you don't care how often that Africans appear in manga, but what they look like when they do. Based on the argument, Toriyama is being racist/biased.
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It is foolish to fear that which you cannot avoid.
From: Green Weasel | Posted: 7/26/2001 3:11:25 PM | Mark for Moderation
Urge... to destroy world... rising... rising...
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With some paint and radiation, you can turn your weasel green too! Proud owner of a house (see quote).
From: fenix1230 | Posted: 7/26/2001 3:15:41 PM | Mark for Moderation
why don't you guys get a sense of humor. Black this, White that, Racism, Klan, blah blah blah. lighten up. And it's not that blacks get special treatment, but blacks are hypersensitive when it comes to racism. Racism is apparent in every country in the world, but sometimes ignorance plays a part too. remember the first series, DragonBall, how many kids look like Gokou, or Krillin. How many people have three eyes. So what if the black people in DBZ-GT do not look realistic, and even degrading, it's just a show. By the way, i have been pulled over for doing nothing. i have been denied the ability to purchase something because of my race. I have been told "are you sure you can afford this." But i've also had my car broken into three times, and each time the person who did it was african american. I have had my apartment, and dorm room broken into, and once again, the people who broke into my place were african american. and when i play basketball, african american's always seem to argue every single call, and try to start a fight if things don't go their way on the court. I'm asain. has anyone ever seen a teen movie called Sixteen Candles? do any asains here use two forks for chopsticks. should i get mad? why not just lighten up. By the way, I have no ill feelings toward african americans, and though this is a little off subject, not only do i have a lot of friends who are black, but a lot of my past girlfriends were too. if anything, get off Akira's back on the racism thing, lighten up, and get a life.
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It's not cheating, because it's YOUR DOG!
From: vegeta415 | Posted: 7/26/2001 3:19:23 PM | Mark for Moderation
I'd hate to admit it but maybe it is a little racist. Does anyone remember the Tenkaichi Boudaki at the beginning of the Buu saga. Trunks and Goten beat up a guy dressed up as Mighty Mask and took his costume and wore it... has anyone ever noticed that Mighty Mask's costume looks an awful lot like a kkk member's costume? I thought this was a coincidence but then, the first person Mighty Mask fights is a black person! Now I'm not sure how much of a coincidence that is. It's true that there aren't many blacks in DB but when there is one, he fights someone looking like a kkk member. Coincidence? I think not.
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Habib 7:11
From: PrettyBoy | Posted: 7/26/2001 3:24:40 PM | Mark for Moderation
Oh God, can you be serious? Now you're just looking for reasons. Anything can be interpreted as being racist nowadays. Its all opinion!!
From: AbsoluteLaguna | Posted: 7/26/2001 3:35:59 PM | Mark for Moderation
well, they needed someone with a mask so trunks and goten could disguise themselves
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"Ken Wa Kyouki, Kenjutsu Wa Satsujin Ken, Sore Wa Shinjitsu" - Himura Kenshin
From: vegeta415 | Posted: 7/26/2001 3:45:16 PM | Mark for Moderation
Well sure they needed someone with a mask but I think its a little too coincidental that he looks like that AND he fights a black person.
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"I'm sleepy. Let's go to school" - Nelson
Habib 7:11
From: Uropygi | Posted: 7/26/2001 3:54:33 PM | Mark for Moderation
The mighty mask analogy is taking it too far. I don't think that's the case. "Black people get special treatment". How supremely ignorant. Yes, African Americans are treated special, like being discriminated against more harshly than any other ethnic group in the world. Going through 400 years of slavery, having your homeland plundered and having your culture destroyed, and having to rebuild from nothing. Being European, I really envy Africans. I wish I had that kind of special treatment.

Like it or not, a point has been made: AT/DB/DBZ/DBGT are racist. And let me get this right

"if anything, get off Akira's back on the racism thing, lighten up, and get a life."

or

"Hey, it's ok Akira's a racist, just accept ignorance/prejudice/racism, it shouldn't bother you"

No letting Akira Toriyama be better than anyone else. The DB series is entertaining, but the man is racist/biased.
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The difference between my strength and yours is the difference between heaven and earth.
From: ss7gogetenks | Posted: 7/26/2001 4:00:30 PM | Mark for Moderation
Drawing black people the stereotypical way is not the only way to draw them. Look at Commander Black in the 10th anniversary special. He wasn't drawn stereotypical. Black from DB was. There is another racist joke in DB, Oolong. He's a PIG wearing a CHINESE, COMMUNIST uniform. Where's the racist at you say? He's a Chinese Communist Pig. He's calling Chinese communists pigs thru Oolong.
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From: AbsoluteLaguna | Posted: 7/26/2001 4:05:20 PM | Mark for Moderation
Like it or not, a point has been made: AT/DB/DBZ/DBGT are racist. And let me get this right.

lol, i didn't see that point be made.
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"Ken Wa Kyouki, Kenjutsu Wa Satsujin Ken, Sore Wa Shinjitsu" - Himura Kenshin
From: StriderHien | Posted: 7/26/2001 4:08:31 PM | Mark for Moderation
Akira Toriyama is racist. He has real issues. Think about it. Goku is essentially your Asian hero. Yet in order to become stronger, he needs to transform from Asian to White("Super" Saiyajin), to beat anyone who is really strong. That isn't a very good message. You can't be Asian and win, you have to be white. It sounds like a personal problem to me.
From: ss7gogetenks | Posted: 7/26/2001 4:08:40 PM | Mark for Moderation
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: StriderHien | Posted: 7/26/2001 4:11:22 PM | Mark for Moderation
Laguna, how did you NOT see the point?
From: AbsoluteLaguna | Posted: 7/26/2001 4:16:45 PM | Mark for Moderation
Akira Toriyama is racist. He has real issues. Think about it. Goku is essentially your Asian hero. Yet in order to become stronger, he needs to transform from Asian to White("Super" Saiyajin), to beat anyone who is really strong. That isn't a very good message. You can't be Asian and win, you have to be white. It sounds like a personal problem to me.

changing into suppa saiya-jin doesn't say ANYTHING. and that's another thing, i don't see how people think the hair of suppa saiya-jin is blonde and they're turning white. A T was trying to make them look stronger by making them look like they have "Golden Power" almost like the triforce from zelda.
and the hair is more gold than blonde and when was it that if you were white, you'd have green eyes? shouldn't you have blue eyes and in some cases brown?
damn, you people are just taking everything that A T does and rewiring it to make it look racist
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"Ken Wa Kyouki, Kenjutsu Wa Satsujin Ken, Sore Wa Shinjitsu" - Himura Kenshin
From: Assassin14 | Posted: 7/26/2001 4:19:39 PM | Mark for Moderation
[This message was deleted by a GameFAQs Moderator]
From: AbsoluteLaguna | Posted: 7/26/2001 4:21:20 PM | Mark for Moderation
Laguna, how did you NOT see the point?

did you not see OUR point?
let ME recap for you

"Most Americans would think of Dragon Ball being racist because in America, there are all kinds of people. And it's very hard for some people to think of a place where over 95% of the population is one race. But it's like that in Japan along with most country's in the world. When I took a vacation in Japan, a group of Japanese people I was with saw a black person from a distance. They thought it was just a very tanned Japanese person. They weren't stupid or ignorant, they just grew up in community where you only came in contact or communicated with one race of people. So it's not very fair to call AT or DB racist."

"Obviously the biggest reason there aren't black people in DB has already been stated. This is a Japanese show and there are very few blacks in Japan. This isn't an American product so you can't judge it as if it is one.

Another reason is simply because they don't know about the issue. Racism between blacks and whites is a problem that we have in America. They know little about it in Japan. At the time DB was airing nobody thought it would ever make it to the US.

And technically there aren't many whites in anime either. Because of the way the characters are drawn they may look white. But actually most of them are Asian. If you've ever seen another anime with actual white people (i.e. Americans) depicted in it then you know there is a difference"

"When you call AT racist you are applying an American idea to a Japanese person. That just doesn't make sense. You can't judge them by our standards. Why would he be racist against black people? There aren't any even around him. In his life he doesn't think twice about it. You just think that because in your life it is an issue. Racism against blacks is an issue in America, not in Japan."
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"Ken Wa Kyouki, Kenjutsu Wa Satsujin Ken, Sore Wa Shinjitsu" - Himura Kenshin
From: Assassin14 | Posted: 7/26/2001 4:24:30 PM | Mark for Moderation
<sarcam>So is gundam wing</sarcam>
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From: StriderHien | Posted: 7/26/2001 4:26:00 PM | Mark for Moderation
"Golden Power" what a way to glorify them turning white. So the hair's slighly more gold than blonde. And that makes it ok? Funny. That doesn't change the fact that their skin becomes fair (like white people), and their eyes turn a color that only white peoples eyes turn. Asians do not have green eyes. Goku's skin, hair, and eyes change to become white.

"you people are just taking everything that A T does and rewiring it to make it look racist "

Notice that no one here is changing ANY facts, so it's not being rewritten. It is racist. Nothing is being changed. The racism is just being pointed out.
From: AbsoluteLaguna | Posted: 7/26/2001 4:35:18 PM | Mark for Moderation
when the hell does their skin turn fair? everyone's skin looks like that when they're under a powerful aura (took at tenshinhan) and when you're skin's near something that's glowing gold, your skin looks that way too
go watch one of those educational movies about color
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"Ken Wa Kyouki, Kenjutsu Wa Satsujin Ken, Sore Wa Shinjitsu" - Himura Kenshin
From: AbsoluteLaguna | Posted: 7/26/2001 4:41:23 PM | Mark for Moderation
and do you really think akira toriyama would've done that suppa saiya-jin racists thing on purpose? he's asian! would he do something to insult himself?! you're just taking something he did for another purpose and then you accused his purpose was to be racist, that's what i meant by rewiring
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"Ken Wa Kyouki, Kenjutsu Wa Satsujin Ken, Sore Wa Shinjitsu" - Himura Kenshin
From: StriderHien | Posted: 7/26/2001 4:59:04 PM | Mark for Moderation
"If they know so little of black people, how to they know to draw them like that? No black people have lips like that. So tell me, if you saw a black person, why you would decide to draw his lips completely different from how they were. Racism/bias. There aren't many black people in Japan, but the Japanese are not completely ignorant of black people. As a matter of fact, most of the manga that does have black people, don't draw them like that. Some one mentioned the anime called "Burn up". Robotech/Macross, Guy: Awakening of the Devil, Fairplace, Tough, and Lokudenasu Blues, hardely ever have black people, but when they are shown they are not drawn like inhuman idiots, they are drawn fine...."

In short, why does AT have to make black people look inhuman while these other artists do not? Racism.

"They thought it was just a very tanned Japanese person."

Then why does AT draw them like monsters? (2nd stage Cell, and Paikuhan) If the difference is not that great then why go out of your way to change them? Racism

As stated before, the number if black people in dbz isn't the issue, it's how they are depicted.

so the posts
"Most americans would think...."
"Obviously the biggest reason..."
"And technically there aren't many...."

Don't address the immediate/specific subject, of the black depictions.

"When you call AT racist you are applying an American idea to a Japanese person. That just doesn't make sense. You can't judge them by our standards."

"Another reason is simply because they don't know about the issue. Racism between blacks and whites is a problem that we have in America. They know little about it in Japan."

The Japanese are just as racist as anyone else. You think that the japanese don't know about racism? Or they are not racist? They are quite racist and no exception to the rule. Come on, that is an insult to their intelligence. They are aware of racism in america. The are not blind. Since when did racism become something strictly american? Never. Everyone is guilty of racism, and no one can be excused. The japanese and AT are no exception.

"Why would he be racist against black people? There aren't any even around him.

Ignorance. Most people who are racist and prejudice, have very little knowledge or experience of the group that they discriminate against.

Next time you watch DBZ pay very close attention. Goku or anyone as a super saiyan has pinker, fairer skin when he changes. That is WITHOUT the glowing aura. Just look at any two images. Why would Toriyama insult himself? He has issues, as I stated earlier.
From: AbsoluteLaguna | Posted: 7/26/2001 5:06:20 PM | Mark for Moderation
why don't YOU pay attention, when he used kaio-ken again'st bejita and smashed him into the mountain, then fell down and landed he had that lighter and pink skin too and i already mentioned tenshinhan
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"Ken Wa Kyouki, Kenjutsu Wa Satsujin Ken, Sore Wa Shinjitsu" - Himura Kenshin
From: AbsoluteLaguna | Posted: 7/26/2001 5:10:22 PM | Mark for Moderation
"When you call AT racist you are applying an American idea to a Japanese person. That just doesn't make sense. You can't judge them by our standards"

we weren't saying that japan had no idea about the racism we were saying that racism was different from the US than in japan and yes we know there is racism everywhere.

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"Ken Wa Kyouki, Kenjutsu Wa Satsujin Ken, Sore Wa Shinjitsu" - Himura Kenshin
From: StriderHien | Posted: 7/26/2001 5:12:25 PM | Mark for Moderation
You don't understand. That is due to light from an aura. What I am talking about is completely different. With NO AURA/energy/light at all, Super Saiyajin have fairer skin than regular saiyajin.
From: AbsoluteLaguna | Posted: 7/26/2001 5:15:03 PM | Mark for Moderation
i understood that
that's why i refered to the kaioken goku when he landed after smashing bejita to the mountain because he had NO visible aura
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"Ken Wa Kyouki, Kenjutsu Wa Satsujin Ken, Sore Wa Shinjitsu" - Himura Kenshin
From: StriderHien | Posted: 7/26/2001 5:16:19 PM | Mark for Moderation
Oh really? It's "different" racism? And how exactly is racism different in Japan? The methods of racism have more variations, if that's what you mean. Racism is racism. By saying it's somehow different in Japan, you are attempting to justify it, and it does not work like that. It's still racism.
From: StriderHien | Posted: 7/26/2001 5:18:30 PM | Mark for Moderation
If you understood than what was the point of your post? That kind of skin differentiation is inconsistent and due to artists mistakes. Super Saiyajins always have fairer skin. No mistakes.
From: AbsoluteLaguna | Posted: 7/26/2001 5:19:40 PM | Mark for Moderation
why don't you read the thread again and tell me what i meant
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"Ken Wa Kyouki, Kenjutsu Wa Satsujin Ken, Sore Wa Shinjitsu" - Himura Kenshin
From: AbsoluteLaguna | Posted: 7/26/2001 5:24:57 PM | Mark for Moderation
If you understood than what was the point of your post? That kind of skin differentiation is inconsistent and due to artists mistakes. Super Saiyajins always have fairer skin. No mistakes.

if you're so sure that the lighter skin with the kaio-ken without the aura was the artists mistake then why not say that the artist made the mistake of putting light skin on the suppa saiya-jins?

and i already said before that akira toriyama's purpose for the suppa saiyajin's appearances could not have been racist because it's riddiculous to argue that he was trying to insult himself since he was in fact asian and you're saying that his purpose was to say that asians can't beat stronger enemies without "turning white" and a better end this post cause i have a run-on sentence
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"Ken Wa Kyouki, Kenjutsu Wa Satsujin Ken, Sore Wa Shinjitsu" - Himura Kenshin
From: SSnesVegita | Posted: 7/26/2001 5:29:17 PM | Mark for Moderation
1. Akira Toriyama did no color in those scenes. That was done by the workers at Toei.

2. Super Saiya-jin do not have fairer skin etc. Toriyama only did black and white manga and there is no difference in skin color when Goku transforms.
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"I'm going to show you the difference between our powers!!"
From: AbsoluteLaguna | Posted: 7/26/2001 5:30:19 PM | Mark for Moderation
1. Akira Toriyama did no color in those scenes. That was done by the workers at Toei.

2. Super Saiya-jin do not have fairer skin etc. Toriyama only did black and white manga and there is no difference in skin color when Goku transforms.


that's also very true

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"Ken Wa Kyouki, Kenjutsu Wa Satsujin Ken, Sore Wa Shinjitsu" - Himura Kenshin
From: AbsoluteLaguna | Posted: 7/26/2001 5:34:45 PM | Mark for Moderation
and there's also a proof (not solid however) that there is no color difference from when they went suppa saiya-jin.

i just took a picture of goku jr. in normal state, and another one of goku jr. SSJ. then i used my image editor and cut out only their chins and pasteds them next to each other and there was no color difference. but then when i looked back at the original pictures, the SSJ seemed to have lght skin probably because the golden hair was there
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"Ken Wa Kyouki, Kenjutsu Wa Satsujin Ken, Sore Wa Shinjitsu" - Himura Kenshin
From: CSMasta | Posted: 7/26/2001 5:36:56 PM | Mark for Moderation
Get a life. It really doesnt matter if he is racist or not. Whats the point of argueing. What are u gonna do if he is racist? Are u gonna stop watching the show? Probably not. So plz just shut up.
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My Signature......
From: Ryan Ferneau | Posted: 7/26/2001 5:38:39 PM | Mark for Moderation
And I suppose that the fact that Dexter Douglas has to transform into Freakazoid sends the message that non-blue-skinned people are weak.
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"This ceramic weenie should fetch a hefty price on the ceramic weenie black market."
From: KingofNewbies | Posted: 7/26/2001 5:47:13 PM | Mark for Moderation
OK let's end this topic here and now. It doesn't really matter whether it's racist or not. This is just a show.
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Hard work never killed anybody but why take any chances
From: AbsoluteLaguna | Posted: 7/26/2001 5:48:40 PM | Mark for Moderation
have someone lock this topic then
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"Ken Wa Kyouki, Kenjutsu Wa Satsujin Ken, Sore Wa Shinjitsu" - Himura Kenshin
From: KingofNewbies | Posted: 7/26/2001 5:49:40 PM | Mark for Moderation
Well the person who started this topic has to close it.
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Hard work never killed anybody but why take any chances
From: Andygal111 | Posted: 7/26/2001 5:50:33 PM | Mark for Moderation
Or a mod can. Try marking it for "other: Please close this topic"
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OFFICIAL spanker of vs topic makers on the DBZ board.
From: AbsoluteLaguna | Posted: 7/26/2001 5:51:23 PM | Mark for Moderation
k
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"Ken Wa Kyouki, Kenjutsu Wa Satsujin Ken, Sore Wa Shinjitsu" - Himura Kenshin
From: AlphaOmega Forcer | Posted: 7/26/2001 5:51:34 PM | Mark for Moderation
IMO, he draws them with big lips to show their mouths when they are closed, because you can't see him then. And, according to some people's opinions, he is also racist against whites because he draws them with 3 eyes, no noses, and makes them perverts. Is that true? No.
From: Son Raditz II | Posted: 7/26/2001 6:20:51 PM | Mark for Moderation
Okay, I figured this out myself.

Misutaa Popo is very similar to some old dolls (forget the name) that were sold a while ago. "Popo" (that might not be the correct spelling) is Italian for "doll." Pretty good how I caught that, eh?

- Radittsu
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Not all liberals are idiots, but most idiots are liberals. SUCK ON THAT, DORK KNIGHT!
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