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Dragonball...Racist?

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From: Hectik Gamer | Posted: 7/27/2001 1:38:17 PM | Mark for Moderation

wtf. you guys are so ignorant.

if anyone was drivin around slow as hell, and starin at me, i would be paranoid. not just if it was a black man, asian, mexican or whatever. with people like you, racism will always exist.
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AIM Name: Hectik Gamer/Hoedigga
Mass murder makes me happy! Dead bodies make me happy! Say what you will of me, ill always have Juggalo Family!

From: android 35 | Posted: 7/27/2001 1:48:12 PM | Mark for Moderation

But if there skin color is different, then that would scare you more ,right?
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FLAME ME FOR MY NEWBIE POSTS! - XxSSJ GohanxX

From: Hectik Gamer | Posted: 7/27/2001 1:55:07 PM | Mark for Moderation

no. not at all. if they looked like they were gonna kick my ass i would be scared
---
AIM Name: Hectik Gamer/Hoedigga
Mass murder makes me happy! Dead bodies make me happy! Say what you will of me, ill always have Juggalo Family!

From: Paikuhan | Posted: 7/27/2001 5:26:57 PM | Mark for Moderation

Common, this is getting really stupid, to the point of being completely irrational.

If any group of
Black
White
Hispanic
Asian/Pacific Islander
Indian
Native American
or anything

Are driving slowly and staring at me, I am going to be scared.
Let me put it in a different perspective.

If any group of
Black
White
Hispanic
Asian/Pacific Islander
Indian
Native American
or anything

Saw you were in need and were to call a tow truck for you, and let you use their cell phone to get as much help as you wanted, are you going to be more or less happy that you were helped by someone based on their ethnic group?

Fenix1230, You give the impression that "those statistics can't be right, no way black people commit less crimes than white people." It shouldn't be that hard for you to accept... And of course a city reputed for black crime is going to have a high black crime rate. That's a very weak argument.

---
Nakka nakka yaru jinai ka.....THUNDER CLAW!!!!

From: Maverick3000 | Posted: 7/27/2001 8:41:38 PM | Mark for Moderation

""You"? You must be under the assumption that because I am against this kind of racism, I am black. And that is a very incorrect assumption. All of the racism you mentioned is wrong. Sexual preference insults are prejudice, not racist. They are wrong too. I don't do any of that. Cartoons are meant to be funny looking? That's funny looking in a racist way? How many black people do you think are genuinely amused when they those depictions? Racism isn't funny on the recieving end, by someone outside of your ethnic group."

Predujice and racism is the same thing. Racism is just a FORM of predujice. And there all under the term disciminating.

And saying you never done or said or thought anything discriminating is just moronic. I can bring several other ways of driscriminating against people or religions.

And don't tell me racism isn't funny when I've been on a recieving end of predijuce so I KNOW what it is like. But wanna know whats the main diffrence between the stuff I get and blacks get?

If a white man says something wrong about a black man he will be known as a racist and will get tons of trouble and probably beat up too.

If someone makes says something wrong about what I got noone is going to give a damn.

This is what I'm talking about special treament. Everyone thinks blacks are the ones are getting all the racism when its not even close.
---
My turtle ran away
TO flame me aim me at: EternalMav55

From: Son Raditz II | Posted: 7/27/2001 8:46:57 PM | Mark for Moderation

KingofNewbie
The PJ's is very racist. That doesn't make it ok.

Boy, if anyone hates blacks, it's Eddie Murphy.

- Radittsu
---
Not all liberals are idiots, but most idiots are liberals. SUCK ON THAT, DORK KNIGHT!

From: Son Raditz II | Posted: 7/27/2001 9:00:01 PM | Mark for Moderation

All of this is incorrect. Apparently it's not simple enough for you. I'll try to make it simpler. Whites make up 74% of the U.S. population, and blacks make up 11%. Poor whites make up 9%(in reality 9%) of the U.S. population while poor blacks, at an exagerrated(more than what is true) number make up 4%. There are more poor whites in the U.S., seeing how there are more whites. And it's interesting how the poor whites number close to the entire black population. That's to give you an idea of majority and minority. There are more poor whites, and they commit more crimes than poor blacks do, seeing how, there are more of them. This is a fact. More black however get convicted, due to racism. Blacks get less time due to racism. This is fact. It's so funny that you say whites are more "LIKELY" to be sentenced to death when MORE BLACKS ACTUALLY ARE SENTENCED TO DEATH.

Okay, I fumbled some of my statistics. There are more blacks committing violent crimes than whites.

As for there being more poor whites than poor blacks, I'd like to know where you get your statistics.

More blacks are sentenced to death because more blacks are being arrested for violent crimes, which is because they commit them at a higher rate.

The racism of this, is how can that be if they are such a small percentage of the population? Black people are not inherently evil.

No, they're not. Did I say they are? No, I said they were committing crimes at a higher level. Perhaps I'm wrong about the poverty levels, but the fact is, there is SOME reason, but I really can't be sure what it is.

It' simple racism. There are many more white police than black police.

Yeah, because there are more white people than black people.

There is also a high chance of these white police being racist.

WHOA. Slow down. Whites are no more inherently evil than blacks.

So if any minority(in this instance a black person" get harassed by a police officer, they obvioulsy don't feel protected. And I mean harassment, not just arrest, or being pulled over, or being reprimanded. Since it hasn;t occured to you, your not taking the time to understand the difference.

I speak English quite well, thank you. I know the difference. Don't treat me like I'm five.

There is a definitive difference. Not all police are good.

But they can't all be terrible racists either.

Another example is that there are more poor whites than combined poor hispanics and blacks. Less than 50% of all poor hispanics and blacks get treated for sickness, while 73% of whites do.

73% of whites or poor whites?

If you are not a minority, then why would you be able to level with minority issues?

Paleontologists were never alive during the era dinosaurs are alive. What do they know about dinosaurs?

Why would your friends bother to talk tou about them?

They do.

I'm not aware of the relationship you have with your friend, but even if it is good, then they still can't account for all black people.

Yeah, I know. I never said racism did not exist at all, only that the extent of it is smaller than many people think.

Likewise a few black people in an article saying there isn't racism, is extremely misleading. One source is not good for getting information.

YEAH, THAT'S IT, I'M BASING MY ENTIRE ARGUMENT ON AN OPINION ESSAY.

- Radittsu
---
Not all liberals are idiots, but most idiots are liberals. SUCK ON THAT, DORK KNIGHT!

From: PrettyBoy | Posted: 7/27/2001 9:24:03 PM | Mark for Moderation

Okay guys, its time to calm down now. This topic was created about a cartoon and its chances of its drawings being based upon by stereotypes. Lets throw away statistics and racial prejudice and return to a peaceful board. Mistakes were made and false statements were made. Come on guys, this is a DragonBall Board, not the Multicultural Issues board (I am not making fun of them in anyway, seeing as how I am a member of the MCI group at my school).
And BTW, I may have misinterpreted the post, but someone mentioned that they do not find black stereotypical drawings funny, at least not to the black community. Well, to me, that means that you do not think that there are cartoon stereotypes of other races. Have you ever been to Cleaveland? Cheif WaHoo. I'm Asian, and there are just as many cartoon stereotypes of Asians as there are blacks (I can match you show for show of having a black racist picture for an asian one).
When I see these cartoons however, I do not think to myself, "Hey, they're trying to oppress me and make me inferior", or, "They're making a statement that all asians are squinty-eyed, dry cleaning, kung-fu fighting, dishwashers", I take it as that it was a simple joke and they wanted to get a rise out of people. Saying cartoons shouldn't be stereotypical is like saying South Park shouldn't make jokes about those who are orientated differently (or not right as some stupid people would say).
However, I am extremely upset that racial slurs, jokes about people's orientation, and dergading names of mentally/physically challenged are said freely on the air, while the f-word and sh@# are not. That is what I see as being selective.
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"Popular music has no flavor because the majority of people have no taste."
"Let the stupid people talk about what they don't know."

From: Son Raditz II | Posted: 7/27/2001 9:49:46 PM | Mark for Moderation

Question
"I got question. how can a population(black) that makes up only 11% of the total US population, make up over 60% of the prison population."

Answer
"Racism"

That's it. It's possible that almost 100% of the police force is racist, despite being screened, but impossible that blacks are committing crimes disproportionately. THAT MAKES PERFECT SENS... no, wait, it doesn't.

- Radittsu
---
"Ambassador: Colonel, have you lost your mind?
Guile: No, you've lost your balls." - Street Fighter

From: Son Raditz II | Posted: 7/27/2001 10:01:27 PM | Mark for Moderation

if anyone was drivin around slow as hell, and starin at me, i would be paranoid. not just if it was a black man, asian, mexican or whatever. with people like you, racism will always exist.

Come on now. He didn't say that ONLY if blacks did that should it be a cause for concern. Hell, he even used the ULTRA politically correct term "African-American."

- Radittsu
---
"Ambassador: Colonel, have you lost your mind?
Guile: No, you've lost your balls." - Street Fighter

From: Son Raditz II | Posted: 7/27/2001 10:03:31 PM | Mark for Moderation

Fenix1230, You give the impression that "those statistics can't be right, no way black people commit less crimes than white people." It shouldn't be that hard for you to accept... And of course a city reputed for black crime is going to have a high black crime rate. That's a very weak argument.

But blacks commit more violent crimes than whites. Like it or not, those are the facts.

- Radittsu
---
"Ambassador: Colonel, have you lost your mind?
Guile: No, you've lost your balls." - Street Fighter

From: Son Raditz II | Posted: 7/27/2001 10:08:19 PM | Mark for Moderation

Racism isn't funny on the recieving end, by someone outside of your ethnic group.

I'm always amused by Italian and English stereotypes, despite being both. You simply have to take some things with a grain of salt.

- Radittsu
---
"Ambassador: Colonel, have you lost your mind?
Guile: No, you've lost your balls." - Street Fighter

From: Son Raditz II | Posted: 7/27/2001 10:11:46 PM | Mark for Moderation

Personally, I find this the most interesting debate I have ever participated in.

- Radittsu
---
"Ambassador: Colonel, have you lost your mind?
Guile: No, you've lost your balls." - Street Fighter

From: fenix1230 | Posted: 7/27/2001 10:14:27 PM | Mark for Moderation

thanx Raditz. anyway, the people are right, this has gotten WAY out of hand. here is the only thing that everyone seems to agree on, and that is that they are not racist. So good for us. Akira made a comic strip that was made for one reason, to amuse and entertain. from the looks of it, he succeeded. if he made fun of asians, no one would be posting this message. but because he draws some black people incorrectly, everyone gets their pantyhose in a run. lets all calm down, and begin to talk about who's the strongest, or whether picolo could beat vegita if they had the same power level. whatever the topic, lets get back to DBZ, and forget about this tired topic.
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It's not cheating, because it's YOUR DOG!

From: Son Raditz II | Posted: 7/27/2001 10:38:19 PM | Mark for Moderation

I'm enjoying this debate. Quit trying to kill it.

- Radittsu
---
"Ambassador: Colonel, have you lost your mind?
Guile: No, you've lost your balls." - Street Fighter

From: ShadowBoxer | Posted: 7/28/2001 2:43:25 PM | Mark for Moderation

"As for there being more poor whites than poor blacks, I'd like to know where you get your statistics."

Umm, that statement makes you sound like a real Jerk.

I guess We have all just learned, that it is a stereo type that there are more poor black people than white people. He said he got the statistics from the U.S. Bureau of the Census, and he's right. Think about it, it makes a lot of sense. If 73% of the country is white, and only 11% of the country is black, there are going to be more poor white people than poor black people. Less than half of of black people are poor. Just because you see more poor black people on TV, doesn't make it the truth. There are more working class(non poor) black people than there are more black people.

Even if black people commit more violent crimes, they don't commit MORE crimes. Theft and robbery, along with drug use and distibution, aren't violent crimes. So if black people commit 36% of the crimes, why are they in 60% of the jails? How do you explain that? It IS in the bureau of census. Why are more black people going to jail, if they don't commit as many crimes? Crime is crime. Looking at those statistics make me think that judges are being racist against blacks. How else are you going to explain those statistics. They ARE true.

I see what strider is getting at with the racism thing. Of course not all cops are racist, but the more white police there are, the higher chance there is for people to be racist. I thought Strider was over zealous about this, but I agree with the statement that Akira Toriyama was being racist, but there are Hard Core racists that we should worry about.

From: xXvegetto2Xx | Posted: 7/28/2001 3:04:19 PM | Mark for Moderation

Racism isn't funny on the recieving end, by someone outside of your ethnic group.

That depends on what type of person you are. I'm Italian, Irish, Polish, English, Hungarian, and maybe some more, I don't know. But I'm not offended by jokes about them. Hell, I even make jokes about them(mostly Polish). Today my brother and sister were arguing, and since they're related to me, they're both Polish. But it was so funny, 'cause what the say and how they act. Me and my sister's boyfriend were laughing at them. My sister was fishing, and my brother was trying to convince her the lure isn't supposed to sink. My sister says something about how the lure is heavy, and heavy things don't float. Then my brother says it's to cast out and you reel it in and keep it on the surface, and my sister said that 'fish don't have ski's on their feet' or something, and at the same time me and my sister's boyfriend stated that fish don't have feet. It's hilarious, and I don't find it offensive at all. My whole family makes fun of my brother, sister, and dad for being Polish, and nobody finds it offensive. I guess I got my brains from my mom. But then again, my mom's Italian. And my mom loves Italian jokes. And me and this girl got our classes changed because we were smarter than everybody else, and she's Polish too. But she hates Polish jokes. And a few weeks ago my mom sent me and my sister and Polish joke, which I thought was pretty funny.
So I guess all I'm trying to say is it all depends on what type of person you are.
---
Vegetto2:
President of Home Made Mallets Inc.©, Andygal's slave.

From: Paikuhan | Posted: 7/28/2001 3:23:42 PM | Mark for Moderation

Everyone thinks blacks are the ones are getting all the racism when its not even close.

If blacks aren't getting most of the racism, then who is? White people? When is the last time, you've heard someone being discriminated against at a job interview or restaurant, because they were white? How often do you see white people discriminated against as strongly as black people? You won't because they don't. It's impossible that white people are discriminated against more than black people, because they are the majority.

As for there being more poor whites than poor blacks, I'd like to know where you get your statistics.

U.S. Bureau of the Census

73% of America is white
11% of american is black

There are more whites than blacks in America. It make is logical that there are more poor whites, since there are so many more whites.

9% of america is poor whites
4% of america is poor blacks

4/11 is more than than 9/73 so while there are more poor whites than poor blacks, blacks are proportionately poorer.

Just because you see more poor black people on TV, doesn't make it the truth.

Actually this is a fact. In media there are more poor blacks seen on TV, so I can see why it's 'hard' to accept.

Less than 50% of poor blacks and Latinos get treated for sickness, while 73% of poor whites do.

If it wasn't 73% of poor whites, his argument would be even dumber than the black crime is higher in cities with high black crime argument...

If you are not a minority, then why would you be able to level with minority issues?

Paleontologists were never alive during the era dinosaurs are alive. What do they know about dinosaurs?

Most of what paleontologists know is speculation. They don't know how the organs and muscles functioned, because they don't have anything to compare dinosaurs to. They have only clues about their mannerism, and behavioral patterns, but they don't even know what the dinosaurs looked like. They don't know what color skin they had, or eyes, among lots of things they don't know. Komodo dragons and crocodiles are quite different from dinosaurs, and they are the closest as far as reptiles are. So his argument makes more sense than yours does.

but hey
"Like it or not, those are the facts."

And
xXvegetto2Xx , normally people don't take offense from a jest by one of their family members. That's in a completely different context than what AT is doing.

Someone

you don't know/doesn't know you
who doesn't know your culture
Mocking you rather than joking WITH you

Might be different from your family and/or close friends joking around.
---
Nakka nakka yaru jinai ka.....THUNDER CLAW!!!!

From: Hectik Gamer | Posted: 7/28/2001 3:48:23 PM | Mark for Moderation

chkkkkkkkkkkkk.........

kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk...............

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<Hectik Gamer is now glowing with a golden aura and his hair is spiked blond>

you guys are really pissin me off. this is totally off topic.
---
AIM Name: Hectik Gamer/Hoedigga
Mass murder makes me happy! Dead bodies make me happy! Say what you will of me, ill always have Juggalo Family!

From: The Silver Noble | Posted: 7/28/2001 4:07:02 PM | Mark for Moderation

Well, I don't have time to read the whole message list, so I apologize if the subject changed. But I'd like to point out that most of the charcters don't look especialy Asian either.
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Why is it that if you're tried as an adult for a crime, you're still treated as a minor everywhere else?

From: Ryan Ferneau | Posted: 7/28/2001 9:30:31 PM | Mark for Moderation

And about the stereotypes as humor thing... I don't think people laugh at the stereotypes as much as they laugh at the idea that someone could actually fit a stereotype.
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"DC: So what about this "Devil" person? What's up with him?
God: ARGH! HE OWES ME TEN BUCKS!"

From: Riidi WW | Posted: 7/28/2001 10:11:26 PM | Mark for Moderation

I would like to point out that robbery IS, in fact, a violent crime.
There's my first two cents (and likely my last, since I'm gonna be on vacation for a week)
---
"The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue. History is an Endless Waltz"- Mariemeia Khushrenada

From: SSj99Oozaru | Posted: 7/29/2001 1:34:52 AM | Mark for Moderation

I've heard that too Ridi, although I don't understand how it's violent.

Well anyway, this is getting out of hand. True, better judgement could have been put into the design of the characters, but that doesn't mean the show or AT is racist. That also doesn't mean that the show or AT ISN'T racist. All I'm saying is, better judgement could have been made, avoiding this problem. What's done is done.
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GO SOCCER MOMS!!! DEATH TO ALL NETWORK ANIME!!!!

From: BlueSpirit | Posted: 7/29/2001 11:53:22 AM | Mark for Moderation

Whoever said that black people commit more violent crimes is sadly mistaken. What ever the source was that gave the information was a complete lie. African American/Black people do not even commit more violent crimes than white people. Whoever posted the U.S. Census statistics should have looked that up too, because it's under the same category. Blacks do not commit more violent crimes. Perhaps you assumed that, because you did not know the truth. The statistics for the black crime being only 36% and the white crime being 50% refers to all crimes. That includes violent crimes. Blacks don't commit more violent crimes, just disproportionately more. Get your facts straight before you post them.
---
Life is immortal, love is eternal, and death is the horizon. Humans can't see past the horizon.

From: Son Raditz II | Posted: 7/29/2001 12:27:38 PM | Mark for Moderation

Umm, that statement makes you sound like a real Jerk.

Asking where he got his statistics makes me sound like a jerk? Why is no one calling other people jerks for (incorrectly) stating that my statistic on whites being more likely than blacks to be sentenced to death for murder is incorrect?

I guess We have all just learned, that it is a stereo type that there are more poor black people than white people. He said he got the statistics from the U.S. Bureau of the Census, and he's right. Think about it, it makes a lot of sense. If 73% of the country is white, and only 11% of the country is black, there are going to be more poor white people than poor black people. Less than half of of black people are poor.

Fair enough, but the census was supposedly full of flaws and incorrect statistics.

Just because you see more poor black people on TV, doesn't make it the truth. There are more working class(non poor) black people than there are more black people.

Eh, I mostly watch the news, where you really don't see too many poor people of any race.

Even if black people commit more violent crimes, they don't commit MORE crimes. Theft and robbery, along with drug use and distibution, aren't violent crimes.

I'd contend that armed robbery is a violent crime.

So if black people commit 36% of the crimes, why are they in 60% of the jails? How do you explain that? It IS in the bureau of census. Why are more black people going to jail, if they don't commit as many crimes? Crime is crime.

Who would you rather send to jail, a murderer or some guy who does drugs?

Looking at those statistics make me think that judges are being racist against blacks. How else are you going to explain those statistics. They ARE true.

The hell? Juries decide the outcome of cases, not judges.

I see what strider is getting at with the racism thing. Of course not all cops are racist, but the more white police there are, the higher chance there is for people to be racist.

There are black racists too, you know.

I thought Strider was over zealous about this, but I agree with the statement that Akira Toriyama was being racist, but there are Hard Core racists that we should worry about.

Fine, I suppose I'm Anti-Italian. Who should I lynch first? Me? My parents? My brother? Just because someone makes jokes about stereotypes doesn't mean they're racists. Does Jeff Foxworthy hate Southerners? Does Chris Rock hate whites? Do the guys who came up with that car commercial that's in Italy and full of Italian stereotypes hate Italians? I strongly doubt it.

- Radittsu
---
"Ambassador: Colonel, have you lost your mind?
Guile: No, you've lost your balls." - Street Fighter

From: Son Raditz II | Posted: 7/29/2001 12:38:35 PM | Mark for Moderation

If blacks aren't getting most of the racism, then who is? White people? When is the last time, you've heard someone being discriminated against at a job interview or restaurant, because they were white?

All the time, because of stupid race quotas that were supposedly going to prevent discrimination.

How often do you see white people discriminated against as strongly as black people? You won't because they don't. It's impossible that white people are discriminated against more than black people, because they are the majority.

Nah. Look at South Africa, where whites were the minority, but blacks were discriminated against.

U.S. Bureau of the Census

73% of America is white
11% of american is black

There are more whites than blacks in America. It make is logical that there are more poor whites, since there are so many more whites.

9% of america is poor whites
4% of america is poor blacks

4/11 is more than than 9/73 so while there are more poor whites than poor blacks, blacks are proportionately poorer.

Fair enough.

If it wasn't 73% of poor whites, his argument would be even dumber than the black crime is higher in cities with high black crime argument...

Well, I wasn't sure the way he put it.

Most of what paleontologists know is speculation. They don't know how the organs and muscles functioned, because they don't have anything to compare dinosaurs to. They have only clues about their mannerism, and behavioral patterns, but they don't even know what the dinosaurs looked like. They don't know what color skin they had, or eyes, among lots of things they don't know. Komodo dragons and crocodiles are quite different from dinosaurs, and they are the closest as far as reptiles are. So his argument makes more sense than yours does.

They know a lot, regardless, and they have few resources. My point is, you don't have to be in the middle of something to understand it. I understand how volcanoes erupt, despite never being under the Earth while it happened.

And
xXvegetto2Xx , normally people don't take offense from a jest by one of their family members. That's in a completely different context than what AT is doing.

Someone

you don't know/doesn't know you
who doesn't know your culture
Mocking you rather than joking WITH you

Might be different from your family and/or close friends joking around.

Oh, come on. Stereotypes are like jokes about celebrities. They're funny because they exaggerate a certain characteristic of people. For example, George W. Bush sometimes fumbles words, so on comedy shows they show him making up weird words and being stupid. The real George W. Bush may not be much like the one seen on Saturday Night Live, but that doesn't make the one on Saturday Night Live any less funny.

- Radittsu
---
"Ambassador: Colonel, have you lost your mind?
Guile: No, you've lost your balls." - Street Fighter

From: Son Raditz II | Posted: 7/29/2001 12:41:35 PM | Mark for Moderation

Whoever said that black people commit more violent crimes is sadly mistaken. What ever the source was that gave the information was a complete lie. African American/Black people do not even commit more violent crimes than white people. Whoever posted the U.S. Census statistics should have looked that up too, because it's under the same category. Blacks do not commit more violent crimes. Perhaps you assumed that, because you did not know the truth. The statistics for the black crime being only 36% and the white crime being 50% refers to all crimes. That includes violent crimes. Blacks don't commit more violent crimes, just disproportionately more. Get your facts straight before you post them.

I read this in The Weekly Standard. They are a trustworthy publication. They obviously have an agenda, but they're good about getting facts straight. They commit more violent crimes, but fewer overall crimes.

- Radittsu
---
"Ambassador: Colonel, have you lost your mind?
Guile: No, you've lost your balls." - Street Fighter

From: Son Raditz II | Posted: 7/29/2001 12:52:53 PM | Mark for Moderation

I've come up with the perfect analogy for BlueSpirit's argument.

That's like saying you can't have more red M & M's than I do because I have more M & M's, most of which are blue.

- Radittsu
---
"Ambassador: Colonel, have you lost your mind?
Guile: No, you've lost your balls." - Street Fighter

From: Son Raditz II | Posted: 7/29/2001 7:22:21 PM | Mark for Moderation

What, no one wants to try and prove me wrong?

- Radittsu
---
"Ambassador: Colonel, have you lost your mind?
Guile: No, you've lost your balls." - Street Fighter

From: calvin2006 | Posted: 7/29/2001 7:27:55 PM | Mark for Moderation

it went all the way from dragonball being racist to regular people being racist, this is a stupid topic!
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go to the best DB, DBZ & DBGT site on the net!
http://calvin2006.homestead.com/

From: Son Raditz II | Posted: 7/29/2001 11:07:47 PM | Mark for Moderation

Come on, doesn't anyone want to try to prove me wrong? Or have you realized your arguments don't make sense?

- Radittsu
---
"Ambassador: Colonel, have you lost your mind?
Guile: No, you've lost your balls." - Street Fighter

From: killerdog | Posted: 7/30/2001 12:55:48 AM | Mark for Moderation

Can you please stop accusing everything that exist on this earth racist?

From: killerdog | Posted: 7/30/2001 1:00:46 AM | Mark for Moderation

Talking racism with emotionnal oriented people is a total waste of time.

From: AbsoluteLaguna | Posted: 7/30/2001 1:04:29 AM | Mark for Moderation

lol
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"Ken Wa Kyouki, Kenjutsu Wa Satsujin Ken, Sore Wa Shinjitsu" - Himura Kenshin

From: killerdog | Posted: 7/30/2001 1:05:31 AM | Mark for Moderation

It is not the color of the skin that gives a person leadership or respect from the others. But one might always point a phisical trait and putting all his problems on it. (EX:If I were white it would not happen, if I were beautiful, if I were tall, if I were slim, if I was a siamese with two legs...etc)

From: killerdog | Posted: 7/30/2001 1:10:40 AM | Mark for Moderation

Let me tell you a proof that Dragonball is not racist :
My drawings. When I draw characters, they are all white without exception. They are all almost identical. (Note that I am not an expert for drawing things). Makes it me racist?

From: AbsoluteLaguna | Posted: 7/30/2001 1:14:44 AM | Mark for Moderation

my puddle of water is stronger than your puddle of water =P
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"Ken Wa Kyouki, Kenjutsu Wa Satsujin Ken, Sore Wa Shinjitsu" - Himura Kenshin

From: killerdog | Posted: 7/30/2001 1:25:43 AM | Mark for Moderation

Personally, if I meet a guy with a good sense of humor that have similar interests with me, I would frequent him and become his friend regardless that he is black, yellow, orange, purple or fushia.

From: Galian Beast | Posted: 7/30/2001 3:57:54 AM | Mark for Moderation

actually you have to admit racism is funny. Its not a good thing but it can be funny as hell. Everyone to some degree is racist. I dont find Dragon Ball Z racist but the way Black people are drawn is.

And the reason why there are more black people in prison is because black people tend to get arrested more often then white people for the same crimes, also tend to get longer sentences.
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"Actually, Sonic 2 was the besst-selling 16-bit game ever". - Zohar Metatron

From: StriderHien | Posted: 7/30/2001 8:56:31 AM | Mark for Moderation

ShadowBoxer, Robbery is a violent crime.

My apologies BlueSpirit, you are quite correct. I wasn't sure of the exact statistics, so I assumed that blacks commit more violent crimes. But Apparently whites commit 58% of all violent crimes while blacks commit 16% of all violent crimes. While blacks commit proportionate higher violent crimes, they do not in fact commit more crimes. This is according to the U.S Bureau of the census, not some so-called "trustworthy publication". Who's information do you think is more accurate? Some newspaper, or the U.S. Bureau of the Census? Who's more qualified to give that information?

"That's like saying you can't have more red M & M's than I do because I have more M & M's, most of which are blue."

Considering that BlueSpirits information is more factual, as opposed to yours which is speculation/bias/lies of a newspaper/propaganda, that analogy is incorrect. It's more like saying this.

"I have 9 red M&M's and you have 4 red M & M's. I clearly have more than you."

This is what you are saying, by contrast.

"I heard I have more M&M's than you so I do. I'm pretty sure it was true, and even though you have 9 red M&M's and I have 4 red M&M's, I still have more M&M's than you do. Prove me wrong!"

And your saying that other peoples arguments don't make sense? While this "Weekly standard" may be "good at getting their facts straight", they obviously aren't the best.

"census was supposedly full of flaws and incorrect statistics."

The margin of error is not THAT wide. The statistics may be off a few points, but nothing to change the general evidence.

"Who would you rather send to jail, a murderer or some guy who does drugs?"

Well, first of all white do commit more violent crimes, the there is still a "question" of racism. Secondly if one is arrested as a middle man in a drug deal, he/she can do 15 years. Murders can get out in 4. So it would appear the system doesn't work in the way that you'd like to think. I'm guessing that it's due to the impact drugs have on the U.S. economy, but drug cases are dealt with more severely than murder cases, in terms of leniency.

"All the time, because of stupid race quotas that were supposedly going to prevent discrimination."

Your either joking or fooling yourself. Are you saying that whites are discriminated against because of affirmative action? You only have a 1/2 point there. You can't end discrimination by discrimination. However, you may want to consider this. White males in American have been privileged over blacks, and everyone else, for 400 years. They were the ones getting the jobs, above minorities, and they could blame crimes on non whites. They were with out a doubt the privileged group for 400 years. White males have had affirmative action for 400 years. However, when the time comes to stop being privileged, it's harsh discrimination? Exactly how bad are you hurting? I don't ever hear of any white protest because they are losing all of their jobs to minorities.

"My point is, you don't have to be in the middle of something to understand it."

For physics and chemistry, no. Comparing the reactions inside a volcano to human culture and sociology is a poor analogy to say the least. Your own cultural experiences prevent you from understanding those of another. That's why one "can't imagine" what it's like to be something else. They are too accustomed to what they know.

From: Son Raditz II | Posted: 7/30/2001 1:35:06 PM | Mark for Moderation

Yea. I was starting to think no one would respond no matter how obnoxious and cocky I got.

My apologies BlueSpirit, you are quite correct. I wasn't sure of the exact statistics, so I assumed that blacks commit more violent crimes. But Apparently whites commit 58% of all violent crimes while blacks commit 16% of all violent crimes. While blacks commit proportionate higher violent crimes, they do not in fact commit more crimes. This is according to the U.S Bureau of the census, not some so-called "trustworthy publication". Who's information do you think is more accurate? Some newspaper, or the U.S. Bureau of the Census? Who's more qualified to give that information?

A) He said whites commit more overall crimes including violent ones. That does not mean blacks commit fewer violent crimes.

And if you don't think it's trustworthy, look here.

http://theweeklystandard.com/about_us/pres_clout.asp

Considering that BlueSpirits information is more factual, as opposed to yours which is speculation/bias/lies of a newspaper/propaganda, that analogy is incorrect. It's more like saying this.

No it isn't. They didn't make these statistics up. Besides, he said MORE OVERALL CRIMES INCLUDING VIOLENT CRIMES, which is quite different from saying MORE VIOLENT CRIMES BUT NO OTHER CRIMES.

And your saying that other peoples arguments don't make sense? While this "Weekly standard" may be "good at getting their facts straight", they obviously aren't the best.

http://theweeklystandard.com/about_us/pres_clout.asp

I doubt all those congressmen would be talking about it if it was some tabloid thing.

The margin of error is not THAT wide. The statistics may be off a few points, but nothing to change the general evidence.

I was watching NBC's New York newscast and they had a bunch of people talking about how there had been a bunch of screw-ups. That said, I don't think they're wrong, I just think you're throwing the wrong numbers at me.

Well, first of all white do commit more violent crimes, the there is still a "question" of racism. Secondly if one is arrested as a middle man in a drug deal, he/she can do 15 years. Murders can get out in 4. So it would appear the system doesn't work in the way that you'd like to think. I'm guessing that it's due to the impact drugs have on the U.S. economy, but drug cases are dealt with more severely than murder cases, in terms of leniency.

Murderers can get out in four years? On what charge? I thought it was 25 years+ for murder.

Your either joking or fooling yourself. Are you saying that whites are discriminated against because of affirmative action? You only have a 1/2 point there. You can't end discrimination by discrimination. However, you may want to consider this. White males in American have been privileged over blacks, and everyone else, for 400 years. They were the ones getting the jobs, above minorities, and they could blame crimes on non whites. They were with out a doubt the privileged group for 400 years. White males have had affirmative action for 400 years. However, when the time comes to stop being privileged, it's harsh discrimination? Exactly how bad are you hurting? I don't ever hear of any white protest because they are losing all of their jobs to minorities.

Saying a black guy deserves precidence over a white guy for a job because some whites used to abuse blacks is a lot like saying I deserve money from Chris Rock because some blacks have killed whites.

For physics and chemistry, no. Comparing the reactions inside a volcano to human culture and sociology is a poor analogy to say the least. Your own cultural experiences prevent you from understanding those of another. That's why one "can't imagine" what it's like to be something else. They are too accustomed to what they know.

I'd contend it is possible if you really look into it. How about this one?

I understand fairly well what happened in World War II, despite not being alive at the time it happened.

- Radittsu

From: StriderHien | Posted: 7/30/2001 2:04:07 PM | Mark for Moderation

"I doubt all those congressmen would be talking about it if it was some tabloid thing."

Your newspaper is not as reliable a the U.S. Bureau of Census. And they are not inclined to tell you the truth.

"No it isn't. They didn't make these statistics up. Besides, he said MORE OVERALL CRIMES INCLUDING VIOLENT CRIMES, which is quite different from saying MORE VIOLENT CRIMES BUT NO OTHER CRIMES."

Regardless of what he intended to say, the fact of the matter is that Whites commit more crimes, and violent crimes. Although blacks commit proportionately more.

"Murderers can get out in four years? On what charge? I thought it was 25 years+ for murder."

4 years on murder, I was amazed to hear that. Vehicular manslaughter(ie running someoneover with a car). Tell me how that makes any sense.

"Saying a black guy deserves precidence over a white guy for a job because some whites used to abuse blacks is a lot like saying I deserve money from Chris Rock because some blacks have killed whites."

Yes, it foolish isn't it? My point is that the white guy already has precidence over a blacky guy. I already mentioned you can't end discrimination by discrimination.

"That said, I don't think they're wrong, I just think you're throwing the wrong numbers at me."

I have no reason to lie. I gain scarely more than amusement from this conversation.

" understand fairly well what happened in World War II, despite not being alive at the time it happened."

How do you presume that you understand world war II? Historians don't even fully comprehend it. You don't even know everything that happened, only a small fraction, and you think you understand it? Men have written volumes, just because you read 2 history books doesn't mean you come close to understanding it. You'd need to have several different perspectives which you don't have. Did the weekly standard tell you what happened?

From: Son Raditz II | Posted: 7/30/2001 2:14:03 PM | Mark for Moderation

Your newspaper is not as reliable a the U.S. Bureau of Census. And they are not inclined to tell you the truth.

A) I'm pretty sure that's where they got their statistics, but I don't have the article anymore.
B) Who is inclined to tell you the truth? Do you trust "Time?" "Newsweek?" "The New York Times?"

By the way, it's not a newspaper, it's a magazine.

Regardless of what he intended to say, the fact of the matter is that Whites commit more crimes, and violent crimes. Although blacks commit proportionately more.

According to what? That number is pretty much useless to your argument.

4 years on murder, I was amazed to hear that. Vehicular manslaughter(ie running someoneover with a car). Tell me how that makes any sense.

Ah! But manslaughter is not murder. I do think that's way too lenient, but murder is intentional. Manslaughter is causing a death by carelessness.

Yes, it foolish isn't it? My point is that the white guy already has precidence over a blacky guy. I already mentioned you can't end discrimination by discrimination.

Okay then.

I have no reason to lie. I gain scarely more than amusement from this conversation.

Yeah, but you're throwing the wrong number my way. All crimes and violent crimes only are two different things.

How do you presume that you understand world war II? Historians don't even fully comprehend it. You don't even know everything that happened, only a small fraction, and you think you understand it? Men have written volumes, just because you read 2 history books doesn't mean you come close to understanding it. You'd need to have several different perspectives which you don't have.

I don't think I understand it 100%. But considering that for a year, I was really into the History Channel, and that they show almost nothing but World War II stuff, whethter they're interviewing Americans, Germans, Russians, Japanese people, or whoever else, I think I'm pretty close.

Did the weekly standard tell you what happened?

Nah, the History Channel, as I just mentioned.

- Radittsu
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"Ambassador: Colonel, have you lost your mind?
Guile: No, you've lost your balls." - Street Fighter

From: The Silver Noble | Posted: 7/30/2001 2:38:07 PM | Mark for Moderation

Hmmm....about manslaughter...I migtht be wrong here, but I belive manslaugher is where you mean to hurt someone, but you accidetely wind up killing them. Like, you get POed at someone, and shoot them in leg. Turns out they're a heomphiliate, and bleed to death. You're thinking of invulkutary manslaughter, where you;re doign something you sholdn't be, but kill someone accidentely.
Now, a person can undertand what something is like without living it. They may not understand completly, but they can get a very good grasp on what was happening by, say, reading a soldier's letter, or reading a diary. Now, that's not the same as actually having the bullets whizzing by your head and still not knowing if you're just the sacrificial decoy, or the main unit, but you can understand the feeling those people will have.
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Why is it that if you're tried as an adult for a crime, you're still treated as a minor everywhere else?

From: StriderHien | Posted: 7/30/2001 2:45:19 PM | Mark for Moderation

"by the way, it's not a newspaper, it's a magazine."

And magazines are more accurate than newspapers? No, not at all.

"According to what? That number is pretty much useless to your argument."

Whites commit 58% of all violent crimes. It is impossible that blacks can commit more crimes, if whites commit 58%. blacks only commit 16% of all violent crimes.

Whites commit 50% of ALL crimes.
Whites commit 58% of all violent crimes.

These numbers should be clear now.

"Ah! But manslaughter is not murder. I do think that's way too lenient, but murder is intentional. Manslaughter is
causing a death by carelessness."

Yes, but it all depends on how good your lawyer is. The man who commit the act tied the boy up and positioned his head in the drive way. His lawyer got it bumped down to vehicular homicide. An a woman who is drunk driving can kill someone and it's murder. In a perfectly identical scenario, it can be vehicular manslaughter. Lawyers determine alot, but you are correct. technically vehicular manslaugher isn't murder.

"I don't think I understand it 100%. But considering that for a year, I was really into the History Channel, and that
they show almost nothing but World War II stuff, whethter they're interviewing Americans, Germans, Russians,
Japanese people, or whoever else, I think I'm pretty close."

Watching the history channel will not give you a good understanding of WWII. I have had the pleasure of hearing it from the Japanese, Korean, German, and English perspectives. Even with all of those perspectives, I know enough to know I don't know anything.

From: Son Raditz II | Posted: 7/30/2001 3:54:06 PM | Mark for Moderation

And magazines are more accurate than newspapers? No, not at all.

I didn't sasy they were. Just pointing it out.

Whites commit 58% of all violent crimes. It is impossible that blacks can commit more crimes, if whites commit 58%. blacks only commit 16% of all violent crimes.

Whites commit 50% of ALL crimes.
Whites commit 58% of all violent crimes.

These numbers should be clear now.

I would like to see the census, actually. Where can I get my hands on it. Oh, and I found the article, hooray.

http://theweeklystandard.com/magazine/mag_6_38_01/tucker_feat_6_38_01.asp

Yes, but it all depends on how good your lawyer is. The man who commit the act tied the boy up and positioned his head in the drive way. His lawyer got it bumped down to vehicular homicide. An a woman who is drunk driving can kill someone and it's murder. In a perfectly identical scenario, it can be vehicular manslaughter. Lawyers determine alot, but you are correct. technically vehicular manslaugher isn't murder.

Yeah, it's no wonder people hate lawyers.

Watching the history channel will not give you a good understanding of WWII. I have had the pleasure of hearing it from the Japanese, Korean, German, and English perspectives. Even with all of those perspectives, I know enough to know I don't know anything.

This is something we're not going to agree on.

- Radittsu
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"Ambassador: Colonel, have you lost your mind?
Guile: No, you've lost your balls." - Street Fighter

From: Maverick3000 | Posted: 7/30/2001 8:50:27 PM | Mark for Moderation

Speaking of newspaper I lost all trust in them after readina USA Today article back in 93 about the growing epidemic of violence in the USA.

It completely lied about the statistics of murders by strangers saying about 1/3 of murders are done by strangers. It was total BS the actual statistic was only around 13% or something.
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"Goten is as skilled as my butt"- ME
TO flame me aim me at: EternalMav55

From: BlueSpirit | Posted: 7/30/2001 9:44:59 PM | Mark for Moderation

Nearly 200 post later all is quiet on the western front...
Where can you find a copy of the U.S. Bureau of the census? There should be an updated version in any good library, or you can be like me and have an internship with the government. After reading the article, I have to say that it is B.S. those statistics are incorrect and the author is biased. His writing style is sloppy, he could have tied his idea's together better. Coming from the opinion of one who studies journalism that is.......

I have a suggestion to make. Instead of having a "intellectual debate" assuming that's how you see it, why not simply compare notes? With the two contrasting attitudes, there is no way you can reach an agreement. Just share the information.

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Life is immortal, love is eternal, and death is the horizon. Humans can't see past the horizon.

From: Son Raditz II | Posted: 7/30/2001 9:58:04 PM | Mark for Moderation

Nearly 200 post later all is quiet on the western front...
Where can you find a copy of the U.S. Bureau of the census? There should be an updated version in any good library, or you can be like me and have an internship with the government.

Okay, I'll try to take a gander.

After reading the article, I have to say that it is B.S. those statistics are incorrect and the author is biased. His writing style is sloppy, he could have tied his idea's together better. Coming from the opinion of one who studies journalism that is.......

Yeah, "The Weekly Standard" is one giant conservative editorial page, of course he's biased.

And these statistics are supposedly what was reported to police.

I have a suggestion to make. Instead of having a "intellectual debate" assuming that's how you see it, why not simply compare notes? With the two contrasting attitudes, there is no way you can reach an agreement. Just share the information.

Good idea.

- Radittsu
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"Ambassador: Colonel, have you lost your mind?
Guile: No, you've lost your balls." - Street Fighter

From: AbsoluteLaguna | Posted: 7/30/2001 10:02:30 PM | Mark for Moderation

200th post!
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"Ken Wa Kyouki, Kenjutsu Wa Satsujin Ken, Sore Wa Shinjitsu" - Himura Kenshin

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